Money has been much on my mind of late, Laura. Both for economic reasons as for the motivation in my WIP.

I'm a one-house owner, but that wasn't my most terrifying financial transaction.

That one would be losing my entire year's scholarship money in one hour in Monte Carlo.

Louise, can we have more details?

Yes, more details!

If I was in Monte Carlo, I'd blow my money on the F1 race (just this past weekend) - and the restaurants - and skip the casinos.

Terrifying finances? I will plainly say - I haven't looked at my 401(k) in almost a year; akin to seeing a horrible crash, and resolutely NOT rubber-necking; I just don't want to see it.

Buying the house? - THAT had me sleeping on my back without my shoulders touching the mattress for a week

Wow, Laura. Your post is so timely for me. I am an attorney and do a great amout of bankruptcy work. The attitude you discussed about people being judgmental about about his wife filing bankruptcy is something I see everyday. Yet it is usually so amazing to me that these very same people, have to sometimes file bankruptcy themselves. The very first thing I frequently hear from people in the first interview is that they can't believe they are in this situation and they never thought they could possibly be in such a situation. They tell me they are "GOOD" people and have always tried to do the "RIGHT" thing. As if bankruptcy is only for "BAD" people.

On another note, my husband and I have been looking for our first house for well over a year. All the nice houses are usually out of our price range. Today I actually saw one that I really liked and I can't even tell you how nervous and scared I am about making an offer. I was analyzing it and was wondering if my fear has to do with the line of work I am in or if it is because it is normal because it is such a great financial commitment. And then I read your blog and thought, it's likely just a natural reaction.

And Brian, to bring it around to a question you asked in the previous comments section: Archie is marrying Veronica, if he indeed is marrying her, for her money -- and the fact that a union with her yield more conflicts, and therefore more stories. Twenty years from now, he'll go to a class reunion and run away with Betty.

Natasha: Houses are HUGE. There's not a McMansion big enough to hold all the emotions we bring to them. I turned out to be (so far) not-bad in my real estate transactions, but that's mainly luck. And, I think, the fact that I recognize the emotional content of a home purchase and am therefore a little ruthless.

The thing that makes most people pass out is seeing what they spend over the life of a mortgage.

It's not a terrifying financial transaction, rather a terrifying financial time. All my money is going out and nothing is coming in. But worse, I don't see that changing.

This is so true, and maybe the one or two things I dislike about Jim Harrison, whose fiction seems overbalanced with heiresses, so he doesn't have to march them off to work every day.

I think that's why writers avoid money. The luckiest among us spend at least a third of our time working, and for even the luckiest, it can be pretty boring. Much easier to give a gal a black Amex and have her climb on a plane to Buenos Aires.

"What was the single most terrifying financial transaction into which you ever entered, if not real estate?"
Quitting my day job and going to law school fulltime, which did turn out to be a mistake but not a financial one. I was terrified about not having a job when I changed from the evening division to the day division of my law school (I did 3 semesters of each) but the real problem with the switch turned out to be that my fellow students at night were way nicer, more interesting, and more fun than the day students.

The Independent Saturday Afternoon Adventure Club...I haven't thought of that in years but it was one of my childhood faves as well. Thanks for reminding me; I'll have to see if I can find a copy!

i am in my first house (actually, a condo in NW DC). the purchase left me cold--the process was very clinical. it was not at all something to which i had emotional attachment--it was a very practical experience, and the selection of this particular one had more to do with my dog than with anything else. once you separated the ones that met my absolute requirements (had to be top floor, had to be corner unit, had to have w/d in unit)and then filtered those by 'had to have a lift' (my beloved dog was aging) the pack was pretty winnowed. i had time constraints, which is probably good, or the process could have gone on forever, since no house is really perfect in all measures at a certain price. if i would have had an inkling of how much my life would change by moving my patterns and habitat 1.25 miles, i would not have done it. i only thought i would be here for two years. hah. important lessons: you will be there longer than you thought you would; no, you will not get used to things you don't like; do any major construction before moving in, if possible; one closet, no matter how large, is never enough.

this month i finish my last car payment. that, too, was a very cold process, but i do love my vehicle. someday i'll calculate how expensive *it* is per sq. ft. so that i can fully embrace the idiocy.

//k

i just realised i didn't really answer the question. it is such a sad tale of woe, i am not sure i can even bring myself to share it, particularly since it is not yet past tense.

please pass the wine.

//k

And don't forget Mr. Micawber and his advice to David.

"What was the single most terrifying financial transaction into which you ever entered, if not real estate?"
I would say it had to be real estate; buying a home after a divorce and qualifying on my own income while I still had legal bills. I kept telling myself that if worse came to worst, that I had $10K available in revolving credit that could be used if I had to replace a roof or finance some other costly repair. I was working two jobs then.
But what I really say is now my most terrifying financial transaction, is that I have co-signed on 3 of my daughter's school loans to the tune of 40K and I am not sure that she, on a Socail Workers income, can pay the monthly amount that, by the way, cannot be negotiated upon. If she goes into arrears, it will all fall onto me an my new husband. At least with a home purchase you think you have equity; a school loan you are investing in your childs future which is equity of a sort, but not the kind that contributes to your personal bottom line.

Virtual glass of Cannonball Cabernet Sauvignon for everyone who needs it.

Buying my first house was terrifying but satisfying. Biggest financial terror now, making it day to day in this economy on my part time salary and my husband's social security. It's meant changes, that's for sure!

I'll take the glass of cabernet and chase it with a nice shot of Tullamore Dew.

I have never owned a house. I am halfway through a thirty year mortgage on my very modest condo. Personally, I won't consider it owned until there is no mortgage on it. I know that others think they own their homes even when it is the bank that really owns them.

Terrifying financial transaction? Dropping out of college after three and a half years (in a major I hated and was forced into by my parents) to work at a theatre for $98 a week. Terrifying but the only sane decision at the time. I couldn't bear to go on otherwise.

Marjorie: And what happened next? (Given the details I know, I think it must have been a good thing?)

What happened next? Do you want the long version or the really long version? Ha! I took the road less traveled by for ten years, all of my twenties, I'd say. I got to work with a community of people who all were following their bliss and working in the arts. I had the honor of seeing the creative process bloom over and over again (and even be a part of it when I did some design work of my own). I got to live immersed in the works of Shakesspeare for the first five years of that time. I got to work for a man, an actor, who took me to Los Angeles for a month on a movie shoot and twice to London during one summer where he was starring in a West End show. I toured with a musical that took me around the country including a month in New Orleans. Perhaps most importantly, I met a man during that time who is very precious to me and one of my closest friends for more than 25 years now. Sure there were egos to deal with and grand dissapointments and never having enough money for the smallest luxuries. There were no weekends or holidays off and no benefits and after I left Boston, no job security, either. So after ten years I decided to return to the "real world". It was time to be a little more settled. Of course, with the world as it is at the moment, even the "real world" has no guarantee of steady work and security. So I slog along as best as I can, but I certainly have no regrets about my decision at 19. I know enough to know that I don't regret the things I did, only the things that I never tried to do. I was lucky, too, that it didn't all blow up on me somehow. It was never easy, but it was frequently rewarding. And at the start, terrifying. I am not sure if my parents ever quite recovered from my decision, but my younger sister finished college. And got married to a good man with a doctorate. And she owns a big house. Geez, I just realized, I am the black sheep of the family!!!

Black sheep always look striking, while white sheep simply look dingy.

"I just realized, I am the black sheep of the family!!!"

Bah - (so to speak), humbug!!

I bet at family cookouts, you're the one folks wanna sit near and gab with

Currently on my third house. Funny note - my last house in LA was 48 years old, just under 1400sq ft, with no yard and constant plumbing issues. When we moved to StL (five yrs ago) we bought an eight-year-old, 2600sqft joint on a third of an acre... for 62% less than what we sold our LA shoebox for. My new house payment was less than my car payment. God bless the Midwest.

Cut to now, Post-WGA strike, post-economy collapse, post-Hollywood slashing writing staffs... and this is when I choose to enter into the most terrifying financial transaction of my life.

Terrifying because I did not enter into it. I turned down an upper level position on a Top 5 network show, which would have paid me more in one year than I've made in the last four combined.

Because I didn't want to leave my family and go work in LA for a year. And I had no real passion for writing the show. I would have been there for the money only. That ginormous, gargantuan, sick pile of money.

Yeah, I'm terrified.

I was a journalist, so being poor has been second nature. My first newspaper job paid me $196/week. That said, I was making a very decent salary three years ago as a copy editor when my husband and I decided that our daughter needed someone home with her after school. So I quit my job, got a part time gig editing a medical journal making half my previous salary, and now we wonder just what we spent our money on before. Because we've been able to put money away every month now. We have no credit card debt and no car loans.

Buying our house was hugely terrifying to me, but we've had it for 10 years now and we paid a fraction of what houses are now going for in our neighborhood. And our interest rate was 6 percent even then.

I'm in my fourth house and it's still worth more than we paid for it, but losing value every day. Scary, because all control is out of our hands. That's the truly terrifying part of this situation. No matter what we do and how we live, we're one serious illness away from very bad things.

Something we did on purpose that scared the crap out of us was when I left my highly paid but empty corporate job and we signed onto big debt to open our own franchised retail store and I was absolutely swamped with work and responsibilities. After two years, my husband also left his job and joined me, thinking we'd expand and grow. Alas, that didn't happen. Eventually we sold the store back to corporate and moved onto other things, but there were many, many scary times on a lot of different levels, all involving money.

The funny thing is that we were very fortunate and did pretty well by the whole adventure. But when you're in it, the view is different.

Although it cost me my back molars and left me with a legacy of dental issues, my annus horribilis was a godsend in several ones. I had worked with the false security of thinking my job was "safe," a particularly ironic thought in light of what's happening at newspapers today, less than a decade later. I had union protection, a 401(k), medical benefits. Even as my income from fiction began to equal and outpace my newspaper salary, I couldn't see leaving such a safe job.

Then they showed me that my safe job wasn't that safe at all. Oh, they couldn't fire me. And, at first, when they transferred me to the county bureau, they couldn't even make the work stultifying; I simply found feature stories that interested me. All I had to do was make sure they fell within the geographical limits imposed on me. Things got worse as the date of the union arbitration arrived, however, and I left under the terms of what, to this day, I am obligated to call a "confidential agreement."

This happened in the fall of '01. In fact, my initial arbitration was postponed because no planes were flying that week and lawyers had to come from Chicago, the company headquarters. A week later, I started flying -- on a book tour, which was conducted, as all my tours had been conducted, on vacation time. I had always experienced a mild fear of flying, but post 9/11, it was gone. The events of that day were so horrific that I felt it was almost . . . self-indulgent to be afraid of flying.

In THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP, the repeated motif is: We are all terminal cases. I guess mine is: We're all living day-to-day, contract-to-contract. There are a few things we can do: save as much as possible, check our insurance policies. But so much is outside our control. At the coffee shop yesterday, I overheard the man sitting next to me comment that his father, a doctor with a hifalutin' speciality that I have already forgotten, had to return to work after his retirement expectations were undercut by the market. I've reached an age where it would be almost impossible for me to get a job -- never mind that my old industry has cratered -- and yet, I have a reasonable life expectancy of another thirty, forty years. How many contracts will there be? What are the implications of digital technology for my field and my livelihood?

If only terror, in general, made us all kinder. I honestly believe that the people who tend to gather here are already pretty kind, empathetic sorts, so I'm talking about the world at large.

In short: I'm terrified, too. And yet I bought a bottle of shampoo yesterday that cost -- I don't even want to say it.

Laura,

Oh, now you have hit upon what may be my only over-the-top vice. Hair care products!!! I drive an eight and a half year old car with 136,000 miles on it. I don't own any real jewelry, I buy my clothes almost always on sale. But.....I indulge in finding the best hair stuff for my horrible hair, looking for the holy grail of volume, thickness, shininess and unfrizziness. Last month I bought my first bottle of Bumble and Bumble shampoo (I had been eyeing it for months), the most expensive I have ever gotten and, luckily, it did nothing for me and I never have to buy it again. I do like and use products from Aveda, Kiehl's and, for curly hair only from a salon in New York City, Ouidad. It's crazy, but it is better than drinking, drugs, smoking, gambling or hiring male prostitutes! Isn't it? So, don't feel bad about your shampoo. And if it works, please let me know what kind it is!!

It was recommended by my stylist. Yesterday, I asked her if shampoo really matters, and she said: "Yes."

But then again, if you asked me if the correct usage of "comprise" really matters, I would say the same thing and yet people can make themselves understood with the incorrect usage, and perhaps I could achieve perfectly acceptable results with a less-than-glorious shampoo. I happened to have a string of bad hair days in Sydney, however, and wanted to see if I could improve the situation.

"I happened to have a string of bad hair days in Sydney"

I confess that this made me laugh!

I've noticed that when we travel around (just here in the North America!), we begin to look different; between local water variations and/or the ocean and/lots more sun, my hair becomes a mess even to me*, and makes the lovely wife look different (especially when we reveiw photos later on) ...by way of saying, I'd blame it on Sydney!

*a joke; pictures always remind me that I'm much balder than I think I am

lol re: hair. a friend recently left the UN and moved back to her home country of Panama, where she has not lived in lo these last thirty years or so. The humidity has found another hair victim. i thought she was overreacting until i saw some of the snaps...yikes. and i *know* she spends more on "products" than what goes for the GNP of many small countries.

as a measure of economy--and storage space--i started to use up all of the shampoo and so on that i have accumulated from the last few years of travel. as a result, my hair has been slightly unpredictable; however, i have not bought shampoo in a year and i have a whole shiny new drawer to use for something else. My shower cap collection!

[Note: i have long hair and take multiple showers per day, so i actually *do* use those up]

Recently was at a conference in vegas. this [very nice] hotel chose a combo shampoo/conditioner. anyone with thick long hair knows the pointlessness of this. hotel gift shop had conditioner for sale, one ounce for 4.95. i was there for a week, and so definitely had to find the closest Walgreen's (refusing to support the hegemony of CVS).

shampoo and other products definitely make a noticeable difference--sometimes a simple one of not being able to run a comb through the tangled mess while you're still in the shower.

//k

and for the non sequitur file:

yesterday, my [normally thought of as very lame] branch of the library had, standing up in one of the displays...LIFE SENTENCES! given the clientele at that branch, i suspect they will think the title refers to something one of their little friends is serving..however, i was very pleased to be greeted by this when i stepped in.

//karen

I'm too lazy to code this link -- http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2009/05/29/us/29paycut.html -- but it's the comment section on a Page One article about a family that's trying to adjust to the father's 10 percent pay cut. The couple's daughters take dance lessons. Guess what some commenters jumped on?

okay, i did not read this article yet--but--i did make my way through a number of the 300+ comments on the [overarching] reference article for this thread--and aside from what the NYT fellow should/should not have disclosed, yadda yadda--whether or not his wife should wear a scarlet I for Impecunious--or Imbecile--there were some downright snarkily awful comments.

I only started reading blawg comments--not just blawgs themselves--about a year and a half ago, so i don't know if there has been a general decline in civility or if this is just How Things Have Been--but there must be something about being cloaked in relative anonymity that allows/compels some of these people to just haul off and unload crap on folks. i see it all the time on [what i would think of as] even more innocuous topics--a skier dies in a fall, tyson's child suffers a tragic accident, etc.--and people just really hurl the invective. sadly, they are not as witty as Pope or Dryden, or it might be more interesting. as it is, it is mostly sad.

perhaps it is easier to be mean when people are disposable and on the other end of a random and ethereal connection. or maybe it attracts some people who were arses anyway,and these fora represent just more places for them to feel powerful. or some other variant. but it is certainly sociologically interesting.

being poor means everyone gets to second guess and pass judgement on how you spent your money.

//k

Virginia Heffernan wrote a piece for the Times a few weeks ago about how simplistic the comments tend to be on controversial issues, often relying on ad hominem attacks.

As I wrote -- prescient for once! -- the day before the Times article, if Mildred Pierce's budget were held up to scrutiny, plenty of people would second-guess those piano lessons and perhaps even the hotdogs. I'm sure there are people who would have disapproved of my habit of buying hardcover books when I was in my 20s. (An aside: One of those books, a first edition of THE BEAN TREES, is now quite valuable.)

When I was the so-called poverty reporter at The Sun, one thing I learned is that cleanliness is expensive. While food was subsidized by food stamps and WIC, cleaning products had to be purchased out of the AFDC funds that also had to cover rent, clothing and all other non-food needs. (These were the programs of the early '90s; social services have changed quite a bit since then.) But poor people tend to live in places that are formidably hard to keep clean, and even harder to keep pest-free. Yet plenty of people would judge the poor for not getting out their and scrubbing their marble steps. "Soap and water is free!" they would say. Actually, it's not.

A 10 percent pay cut is a big deal that would ding almost any household budget. And those commenters who feel they could weather it without a sweat should attempt to give that much of their income to charity every year.

laura-

while it is easy with the advantage of hindsight and self-righteousness for some to pass judgement on the hot dogs and kreutzer sonata, it is sometimes those small extravagances which allow people to survive the otherwise crushing weight of their erstwhile bleak existence. doubtless mildred performed calculations and decided that this was, in some way, very worth the trade-off it generated. and i may choose to eat top ramen for a month to see helen mirren in phaedra. i am violently agreeing with you.

re: cleanliness & poverty: in the late 80s i had occasion to be on assistance after being hit by a car and being on disabililty. it was quite a humbling lesson in what you could, and could not, get with food stamps. pine sol was not on the list. neither were shampoo or deordorant. i also learnt rather quickly how expensive it was to be poor--having to be reactive instead of proactive, not being able to buy things when they were on sale, before you needed them, and having to buy them at whatever price they were because you were out of whatever it was. and having late fees for things because you didn't have the right cash flow, always robbing peter to pay paul. i was very glad to be healed and go back to work. i think this experience scarred me for life. i have a veritable stockpile of cleaning products and similar taxable goods not covered by assistance, though i have never used it since.

//k

Karen,

I'm sorry your knowledge comes via such difficult first-hand circumstances. But your phrase "expensive to be poor" nails the conundrum.

laura,

apparently it bothered me so much just thinking about it that i lost the ability to type 'disability' and 'deodorant' and match 'neither' with 'nor.' :) disclaimer: i am excellent speller, but i am a woefully lazy typist...i haven't consciously thought about that episode (this part of it, anyway--my funky clavicle is a daily reminder to be careful on bikes) in a very long time indeed. i had forgotten about the whole pine sol aspect until you brought it up. it has certainly given me cause for reflection today regarding my shopping habits.

what is probably the more compelling part of the story is that my father was on the board of directors of the catholic hospital chain in the area (i did not drag myself to the hospital until the next day--ridiculous, but i haven't changed much in that regard in 20 years). we never discussed the incident, though i don't know how he could not have known about it (i was not a minor and did not live at home--about 5-7 mi. away). it is part of the vast body of non-conversations between us.

//k

somewhat in line with the thread re: ADC, WIC, and entitlements: below is a link regarding the story of a TN man, aged 29, who has sired 21 children [not a typo] by a handful of women. because he can only be garnished at a max of 50% of his income, some of the women get 1.98 a child--and the state kicks in...and when he does not make payments, he gets jailed (and we all know how much money is made in jail--well, if you are not avon barksdale).

Defendant: "Well, it just happened..."

big ol' sigh.

the comments, however, range from 'he should be castrated!' to everyone involved should 'have lobotomy's '[sic], with a few pleas for consideration of the habits of the poor.

http://www.volunteertv.com/home/headlines/45871127.html

p.s. helen mirren sold out in five hours. no top ramen is necessary. :)

//kjl

karen,

There are always ways to get tickets to a sold out show. I assume you were trying for "Phedra" in Washington, D.C. and not going over to the National in London? Then if you are patient, you can stand outside before a matinee with a sign saying "Need One Ticket" (have cash ready just in case) or check and see if the theatre will be accepting new usher applications in July and then see the show for free or go the box office on the day of the show as soon as they open and ask about a ticket then. Box offices always hold house seats until the day of the show and when they don't need them, they release them, sometimes even at the last minute. The Theatre also has subscribers who turn in tickets when they can't attend. You should never give up if you really want to see the show. I speake from experience. Oh, and I saw Helen Mirren at the National in London in "Mourning Becomes Electra" back in '03. Well worth it even my jet lag (and the show ran four and a half hours)! She has the stage chops for sure. Not all movie stars do. Don't give up.

marjorie,

how very sweet of you to provide your [expert] advice. much appreciated. HM won't be here until september. something will work out. yes, talking about phaedre at stc in dc. i normally subscribe to a number of series at the kc & through wpas, so i know that a seat will likely become available one way or another--but i won't have to deal wtih it until fall now, and it will be a little more serendipitous.

since she was on my mind, i ordered the next installment of prime suspect (i am in season 4) and the queen, both of which should be in my mailbox as i type, and should help me to feel better. :)

IIRC, she started out on the stage, didn't she? i'd give my left arm to see her--i have no intention of giving up, believe me! it is even possible that i have a wee girl crush on her. i just think she is fabulous.

speaking of london and the theatre--did you see kevin spacey on charlie rose the other night? is it really possible he has been doing that for six years?

thx again, marjorie-

//k

karen,

Good! Not that I wish endlsee ramen noodles on you (did you know that they are deep fried first and so very unhealthy even if they are incredibly cheap?). When I was at my poorest and needed money for other things, I would buy a loaf of the cheapest white bread (never Wonder) and a no-name package of bologna and eat bologna sandwiches day after day. The worst sandwich was always the one made from the two crust ends of the bread. Ugh. (That brings things back around to one of the topics at hands, doesn't it?)

I did not see Kevin Spacey on Charlie Rose....however I have seen him on stage twice (and that is probably even better than Charlie Rose who almost never lets anyone finish a sentence). The first time was in New York in "The Iceman Cometh". The second time was at his theatre in London, the Old Vid, where he played Richard II. I enjoyed his work both times very much. Doing the Shakespeare as an American when he was surrounded by an otherwise British cast was a brave thing to do. Don't get me wrong. American actors have done extraordinary work with Shakespeare. But there is somehing about the language that comes easier to the English and I was proud for Kevin that he held his own with the music of those words.

My most terrifying financial transaction was going on welfare. The alternatives were much worse, so in some ways it was a relief, but I was afraid of what else such a step might cost me.

Thanks for the recognition from all of how expensive it is to be poor! Hard for those who haven't been there to understand how every penny--really every single penny--must be counted. Once when the kitchen ceiling in my apartment collapsed, my mother asked why I didn't just call a repairman instead of badgering the landlord. Ha. Ha. Ha.

Poor people are so often demonised in our culture. I got used to people in grocery lines criticising the items I was paying for with food stamps. Mushrooms--did you know?--are a luxury the poor shouldn't be able to afford. The whole bootstrap thing makes me furious. You can only do so much by yourself. Many people helped me get out of poverty (including the taxpayers among whom I proudly count myself & my children now).

OTOH no swings of the economy scare me now. My welfare experience was years ago, but I know I don't have to be afraid of poverty.

The actor Craig T. Nelson was recently on television, railing against taxes. He said (paraphrasing from memory): "I was on food stamps and welfare, and did anyone help me out?"

Hah!

And while we're on the 'oblivious-as-CTN' tangent, how many of us have NOT been the beneficiary of affirmative action?

For example, the job I've had for 23 years was obtained through affirmative action; a friend had a brother-in-law who worked at a great place which had an opening - so the brother-in-law passed word through my friend, and 'put a good word in' for me, and voila!

Once I got 'in the door', it was up to me - but coming upon that door in the first place was by no means assured.

Social networking is another invisible bit of (among other things) 'affirmative action'....so that being against deliberately affirmative action at public college or government jobs has always struck me as, at best, incoherent.

By way of saying, everybody depends on 'good breaks' (ie - getting a foot in the door), and systematically trying to broadcast those 'good breaks' amongst groups of people who would otherwise simply be ignored, is a very good thing.

marjorie--was not really being serious re: ramen. and yes, while you may find them at 20 cents each (though i seem to remember they were 10/$1 in my college years), they are horrible for you on a number of levels, including sodium (which would also be true of bologna, hot dogs, and many other 'cheap eats'). while it is expensive to be poor, it is also more expensive to eat in a healthful way, rice and beans aside. thankfully, i suppose, i have never been able to tolerate junk food.

laura--i have never been particularly enamoured of craig t. nelson. what you cite did not help his case.

brian--i cannot begin to imagine having the same employer for 23 years, on oh-so-many levels. in the world of gov't contracting, it has been unusual to have the same employer for 23 months. i can, however, appreciate 23 uninterrupted years of wage-earning. not so sure i agree with your 'good breaks' theory. it has not been my experience. outside of my consultancies, i have never had an adult job through any known source (meaning someone i knew, not that i cannot remember how i got it in the first place). i have always been found through job boards on which i have posted. interestingly, i have never [that i can recall] gotten an adult job for which i have been the pursuer--only ever through being the 'wooed.' not sure what that means, other than i am nearly 100% certain when i apply for something for which i am perfectly qualified that it won't happen.

//karen

interestingly, while it has seemed an easy target to throw stones at the poor and judge them for music lessons in the midst of relative poverty, the public has seemed to have had a slightly different response re: the madoff mess. i have not really heard that much re: people questioning huge investments made by otherwise smart people with a firm with such questionable practices (secrecy, trading oddities, unusual statements, etc. etc.). whether because the people who lost their money are, for the most part, retrospectively embarrassed, or some other reason, it hasn't really received the same airplay. and while i am sorry for everyone who lost their money, so much of that did not ever pass the sniff test. i am not certain how i feel about the gov't chasing the money to refund it to investors and the case being made for out and out giving it back out of gov't coffers. if i lost a heap of change in The Greatest Vitamin Ever Sold, would Uncle Sam help me out? i rather doubt it.

//karen

Karen,

Alexandra Penney (IIRC the name) was ridiculed for her "Bag Lady" chronicles on the Daily Beast. She was a Madoff investor who lost everything, but has parlayed her (weirdly readable) rants into a book deal.

I was torn about her, too. Granted there's a willful ignorance in the rationalizations of Madoff's victims, but I can see myself making these same mistakes. I just always figured that the big gains in the financial markets weren't for people like me, but that there was some magic way to earn large returns.

In all these cases, I think those who judge harshly are very frightened people, who can't bear to acknowledge the role that luck has had in shaping their lives because they don't want to think about what they'll do if their luck runs out.

laura,

re: luck: i think that to admit to the power of luck is to admit to a lack of control, the idea of which is anathema to many, particularly, i would suppose, the 'movers and shakers' who comprised ( :) ) much of the madoff list.
since it is impossible to divorce what i now know from the story, it is difficult to say how i may have responded had i even been a potential investor, but it has been a discussion topic in my family for many years. we have even joked about ponzi schemes, the idea of which was so very preposterous as to generate a number of laughs. we could never figure out the 'secret sauce.' buffett was more transparent.

what i think is probably one of the more interesting angles is that madoff could easily have kept this up until he died. it was only the global meltdown causing withdrawals for ready cash and a slowdown in 'new investors' that caused the whole thing to come apart. and while he may go down as a scamp for the ages, everybody was pretty damn happy while they made money hand over fist.

what has amased me has been the ability for a secret of this magnitude to be kept for this long and folks to have adhered to his admonitions about keeping him out of the prospectus and so on.

and in light of our topic: suze orman is on pbs tonight at 2230 hrs ET [sorry--no wallander]. topic: women and money...

//k

I don't know if it's a curse or a blessing but I've never been much to worry about financial transactions. When I was single I always figured if everything else failed I could just move in back with my parents. Now that I'm married and have a family I think about it a little more but we have very stable, very helpful families and if all else failed we could move in with my inlaws.

Sure I'd take a hit egotistically and there would be sacrifices, but it's enough of a cushion to keep my mind from going to those awful places needed for worry. It also helps that I married a woman who worries enough for the both of us and I see it as my job in the marriage to calm her the hell down sometimes.

I never thought I'd own a house. I have no usable repair skills and the credit worthiness of a Nigerian Prince. But my wife has owned her own house since she was 19 and my inlaws own several homes that the rent or sell so we were able to get into a foreclosed house and do $75k worth of repairs with $15k of money and a very patient father in law teaching me how to fix things.

I still hate almost everything about owning a house and would lease a condo for the rest of my life if given the choice.

what a feast of ideas and exquisite writing here today, wow

Alexandra Penney's work is featured in a Miami house in Elle Decor this month and is really exquisite.

Laura, I'd like to re-read your annus horribilis that is in an anthology, but i can't remember the name of the book. Can you reference? For some reason, before i found memory project i fantasized you had the perfect life, worked at the best paper, created the perfect heroine, etc. and then i came across that story. I was shocked that anyone could be so hideous to you...and where are they now? But I would like to revist that piece.

"i cannot begin to imagine having the same employer for 23 years"

Well, indeed - it sorta just happened. I remember actively considering changing jobs (many years ago!); but then I got a very nice raise, and as the person who writes this blog also occasional says - the work I do is a lot more pleasant than ditch-digging!

I recall a weekday, many summers ago; it was during a vacation, and we were at my lovely wife's family's farm. It was hay-baling time, and as the 'city boy', they were going to let me have the (genuine) honor of driving the John Deere that was pulling the baler and the hay wagon.

My wife's uncle was showing me how to run the air conditioner and the radio - but I only wanted to know what I had to do if he yelled "STOP!". (the answer was - shove in the clutch, jump on the brakes, push the throttle lever forward*, and disengage the hydraulics).

I HATED driving the tractor! Aside from worrying whether I'd screw up and kill someone, the field was more than a little hilly. Proceeding along the side of one particularly steep (by my lights!) hill in the hayfield, which had no-doubt been successfully navigated many thousands of times over previous years, I became increasingly concerned until I blurted out a stream of expletives...it seemed like surely the damned tractor was going to pitch over on it's side!

Eventually, we took a break, and I requested stacking duty on the hay wagon - which was INSTANTLY accepted by one of the other fellows (who then made abee-line to the air conditioned cab of the tractor!) - and over the next few hours I think I sweated out all the sweat I had.

By way of saying - THAT was work!! The thought occurred at that time that if we weren't on vacation, at that very moment I'd have been at my desk in a climate controlled office, thinking I was "working"!

*I learned that, in a John Deere 4440 (and maybe all the others - but who knows?), there are three pedals on the floor, and none of them are a gas pedal!

Bella,

That essay, Laura the Pest, was in an anthology called Bad Girls.

The man who was bad to me is still in the newspaper biz. So one could argue the has, in fact, been punished. His surname also was used for a character on a -- ahem -- cable drama series, a police officer who had reached the rank of lieutenant or captain. (I honestly can't remember.) It is said of this particular character that he does not "toss talent off lightly. He throws it off with great force."

But you know what? In interest of fairness: For every person who finds the guy a total dick, there are probably two people who think he's a living doll. That was another important lesson I learned, that people get to be different people to different people. That's my John Deere 4440 moment.

Fascinating...

For an eye-opening lecture on personal finances and bankruptcies in this country, I highly, highly recommend Elizabeth Warren's Jefferson Memorial lecture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akVL7QY0S8A

Warning: it's an hour long. Once I got past the first seven minutes (she doesn't start until minute 5), I couldn't stop. It's terrifying just how many people in this country have declared bankruptcy, and how much in denial we as a society are about it.

This is the lady in charge of trying to monitor the TARP monies. She was also on The Daily Show recently.

I'm not sure if my scariest moment was going to Australia and New Zealand for 3 months after being laid off in 1997 (I had some financial incentive not to find a job for those 3 months), or having to file for unemployment insurance in November last year after another layoff. Trivial, but I feel I should mention this, as during that Australian trip, I drove a tractor (a 1951 Ferguson?) for the first time. It had three pedals, but they were the usual three (accelerator, brake, clutch), but there was no synchronizer -- double clutching req'd for every shift.